Bass Fishing Forums - The Bassholes banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A lot of people, myself included, did not believe that a bass that would beat Perry's record existed. It is a legend of lore, and it was believed that it would never be topped.

If Jared is able to use the "radio" show that I created, you will be able to hear my views on the bass and the means it was caught by.

If not, I will let it be known here. I believe that snagging any fish is wrong, especially when the fish in question is in the process of spawning. Now, these anglers might have believed that the bass went nose down on the lure, but I would be 100% sure.

I believe that anglers should leave bass alone to spawn and to reproduce for that year class. I know that the scientific research has shown that fishing for bedding fish does not negatively effect the population class for that year. However, with pressure continually growing, I am going to do all that I can to make sure that the bass has every chance to spawn successfully.

It is also my belief that since the bass has been discovered, that the California officials should shut down Lake Dixon until after the spawn. Then, allow anglers to fish for the bass, and see if she can top Perry's record.

What are all of your thoughts on this situation?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,927 Posts
I just know if I caught that monster, it would of stayed in my livewell to be officaly weighed ! The snagging part I can understand . Things do happen beyond your control.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I can feel where you are coming from, but there are a couple of things that you have to take into consideration. :p I feel that Mac did the right thing by releasing the bass when he did.

The first thing is that it was spawning. As heavily pressured as those bodies of water are, any extra stress that the bass are placed under can be detrimental to the spawn.

The next thing that you have to take into consideration is the sheer size and age of the bass. A lot of people have agreed that the bass was quite old, and any extra stress could lead to the bass dying.

All in all, I believe that the right thing was done. Whether or not it could have been held as the new IGFA World Record Largemouth or not, I would have done the same thing that Mac did. But the honest truth is that even with the steps that were taken, there is a high chance that the stress that the bass underwent will lead to it's passing. And that is truly a sad thought to have.

One other thing that I will ask of you all is if you feel that this bass, if it was accepted by the IGFA as the new world record, should there be an asterik by it? George Perry caught his bass in Georgia, about a 7 hour drive from where I live. Georgia has yet to produce a bass within 5 lbs. of the WR. With that being said, California has produced a lot of 20+ lbs. bass. A lot of that is contributed to the stocking of trout that California does in the lakes that the trophy bass have been caught from.

Do you believe that this bass are "natural" and that they would reach the sizes that they have reached in a lake that does not have trout stocked in them? I fully understand that the trout are stocked for the recreational anglers, so that they can provide food for their families, etc.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,224 Posts
I don't think bass sizes based on forage types should be considered negatively. Suppose the Great Lakes, or some lake down the Mississippi filling with round gobies results in record trophy bass? They are taking to those exotics, already one of the favorite foods of bass there. I realize the growing season is shorter there, but the sheer masses of gobies could keep bass stuffed all day every day, while stocked trout in a California lake are limited in numbers.

As you already know from our former mutual membership I don't believe in C&R (catch & release) unless wildlife managers have scientifically determined the need for it. If they allow a creel limit, they have taken into account a reasonable harvest, having a good handle on total bass biomass production in a lake in relation to consistently available forage. Fishermen are not helping them out by imposing C&R on themselves or anyone else. No study has shown C&R anglers have aided in overall goals of fisheries managers that don't require C&R. In fact, too much C&R can result in damage to a fishery by upsetting fish size class distribution. Another fact is an old fish has already contributed plenty of its genes to a fishery. As they grow older they accumulate more toxins and mutations, which can introduce problems if too many are retained for a long life. Young adult bass contribute a healthier recruitment. Another emerging problem is that in heavily pressured lakes where C&R is the norm, larger bass are becoming harder to catch. They learn to avoid artificial lures. Reaction bites become the primary means of catching a few of them. On our lakes C&R hasn't become popular except during tournaments. We have 7 fish cleaning stations on Lake Ouachita that you have to stand in line to utilize, requiring some planning as to when to quit fishing. Our bass populations have not suffered from that, but are now lacking forage and not growing very large compared to the 1960s when I learned never to brag on any bass under 9#. There are too many fish above 13" and not enough food, partly due to stocking stripers and a few bad shad spawn years, plus one hard winter that killed most of them off.

As long as bass are successfully recruiting themselves through natural spawning, no harm is done removing large bass during the spawn. Whatever fishermen think they can do to a large fishery is dwarfed by what nature does to control animal populations, plus natural disasters like drought. If a female is removed from a spawning area, many more await their turn to deposit eggs for the males that recruit as many females, one at a time, until spawning ends. If any are to be released males on beds ought to be released immediately because keeping it in a boat just 10 minutes can allow panfish or a salamander to eat all the eggs that quickly. Those fish suffer greatly from guarding beds one to two months a year with little or no feeding. That's why male bass are typically smaller, and many die early because of the stress of spawning. But even so, it only takes 2-3 100% successful beds to overstock a lake if all the eggs result in one year old immature bass. All that is needed is a few fry to survive of each bed to keep the bass population normal. Excess fry are eaten by many predators, including parent bass.

Jim
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes, I remember that you do not believe in C&R, but that is where I respectifully disagree. When I fish for bass, I have no reason to keep any of them unless I need food for the table, and even in that case, there are more savory species of fish (trout, crappies, bluegills, catfish) that I can catch to provide sustenance for my family or friends of my family.

It's not so much that I feel the need to keep bass, as that I would rather allow another angler to have the memories of catching a bass of a lifetime. I have seen the success of catch and release, and I do believe that it contributes to a better fishery. I do not have a degree in fisheries management or marine biology, but I do believe that all the preaching that other biologists have done concerning the catch and release practices does add up to something bigger.

As for the shad kill and poor spawning years that you all have experienced, come down to Lake Weiss and get all the shad that you want! We had a bad kill off in 2000 or 2001, and literally millions of shad were killed. I talked to several biologists from Weiss, and they said that it didn't touch any part of the shad population. I would like to know how it's possible to have that many shad in a fishery and still be able to produce the numbers and sizes of bass, crappies, catfish, and stripers that Weiss has produced.

It's on the Coosa River chain, and it comes down from Tennessee, into Georgia where it dumps into Weiss, along with 3 other rivers. Then, from Weiss it goes to Neely Henry, and then to Logan Martin. It is possible that the shad come down the river system and that they are evenly distributed throughout the reserviors and river??
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,224 Posts
All it takes is a hundred or less 1# shad spawning successfully in one year to stock a lake to unbelievable numbers. When shad are missing bass easily turn to crayfish and panfish, and they will do that at times shad are plentiful because crayfish are easier to catch. Panfish make a great meal, one fish sustaining a bass a couple of days, so especially when they are spawning bass take advantage of them, then eat their fry as though in revenge for panfish robbing the bass beds. And yes, current redistributes shad downstream, so you have an ideal fishery setup.

We agree to disagree respectfully about C&R as in the past. My background is fisheries in relation to riparian (river) wetlands wildlife management. I've been out sampling fish hundreds of times, part of fisheries management as well as silviculture above the water's edge, monitoring forestry impacts on waterways, and know what goes into the decision making for managing fisheries. I come at it from a technical angle, going by biological fact as well as experience working and fishing, so I'm immune from the emotional aspects and am not at all in agreement removal of a bass will diminish the experience of the next angler. Most anglers don't catch enough bass to impact a lake in their lifetime, neither would the combined successes of all including the masters. Nature responds to harvest very effectively. Bass respond much like deer do to a heavy harvest, as do most game animals, the survivors having more forage to share. Remaining lunker bass find more food and grow even larger faster. The larger bass in a lake are effectively out of reach of shore-bangers anyway. Hardly any lake could accommodate enough boats to be launched with enough anglers any given day to threaten any but a northern lake or one very close to a major metro. I'm taking the prevalent fisheries stance on the issue. Biologists are perfectly correct to emphasize C&R, fingerling stocking, fishing seasons, slots and size limits where data shows the need for careful conservation. That occurs mostly in northern fisheries with short growing seasons and high fishing pressure. It would be very difficult to find a southern, mid-west, south western or Californian fishery in such bad shape C&R is required. I too have seen C&R do wonders where C&R was needed. But I've also sampled lakes with too many large bass where anglers are convinced the bass are gone, unable to catch them because they just won't bite shallow where they have seen or been stung too many times by artificials. If they don't master deep structure to find unmolested bass they often end up abandoning a lake.

Here's a bottom line. If too much unrequired C&R exists, eventually creel limits are increased out of necessity to prevent over population of large classes of bass, seasons lengthened, and managers begin encouraging harvest even more. I love eating crappie too, but I prefer bassing. We eat bass regularly up to 3.5-4# in size, no larger because of fat content and the thick fillets. So I do practice a form of C&R, releasing stripers over 2#, even the 30#ers going back in. My wife can't stand the smell of them cooking. Just something about them, even smoked on a grill. I'm still trying to eat up a 32 pound striper that died on me from a long fight in January, so I have to cook it over coals whenever she's away. :mad:

Jim
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yea, I say that Lake Weiss is just as good as Lanier for spots. Lanier produces the big spots, while Weiss produces numbers of spots in the 2-6 lbs. class. There isn't anything finer than getting a 5# spotted bass on a spinning setup. Even ranks up there with fishing for bull gills on ultra-light gear. Spots have the attitude of not giving up til they have the thumb on their lip. It's amazing to see just how much forage there is in Lake Weiss. You can go to Brushy Branch, which is the Georgia side of Weiss, and literally have shad jump into the boat! They are thick as thieves there.

As for the C&R, yes we agree to disagree with respect to one another. I personally feel that letting the bass go is quite alright, although it may not be needed. I know on Weiss, it's not needed, but I just prefer to let them go. On Sloppy Floyd, which is a state park, I will keep bass if I am lucky enough to catch more than 1. A lot of the time, catching 1 bass is a good day. My best day as been 8 bass, when I first used a drop-shot. My second best day was the day that I caught 3 bass, but ended keeping two of them.

As for the stripers, the reason that they might be smelling bad is because of the red meat strip that is on the skin side of the fillet. I know that you have to remove that strip, or the whole fillet is ruined. We just use it for catfish bait. LOL
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,224 Posts
We might still have 1.5 million stripers on our 40,000 acres, way too many. The decision to stock them was made without input from biologists, purely political. Our LMBs are not growing due to the extreme competition, but we have plenty of them. Catching 20-30 is a good day here, average 2#, a few coming in at 7#, and a rare 9#er weighed in at a marina last month.

I have no quarrel with anyone willing to put their bass back. There's nothing wrong with that. I do know a few guys around here who just don't like eating fish, but are excellent bassers. We also get lots of visitors from the north who practice that. But, since 1955 when the lake was built the annual harvest has been amazingly large. Putting pressure on the state to reduce striper stocking worked, cutting it in half. They have yet to answer my challenge to provide actual statistics proving that was a good decision. The point is there is no support for it. Sad thing is the striper guides tend to release them, moreso now that they've heard of the cut back. Last year I watched them parade by the dam in a two mile line 50 feet wide, many going a good 50-60 pounds. They're wanting to find the ocean. Too bad they can't flush on down.

The red meat does come out, wasting a good 30-50% on the big ones. Even with all white flesh my wife knows they are stripers when cooked. Too "fishy". Bummer. I like them smoked over charcoal.

Jim
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yea, we have a healthy population of stripers that have been found to successfully reproduce on Weiss. They are able to get up into the rivers, and they spawn just like any other fish would. A lot of people did not think that they would, but when you start catching 6-10" stripers, and knowing that they only stock stripers that are 12" or bigger, we wondered where they were coming from.

The only other thing that I can tell you to try is to marinate the striper fillets in milk. We do that with our catfish, and it makes them taste really good. 8) Um, um, good.

Another thing that we do, especially for the catfish, it allow them to swim around in clean water for a couple of days. It flushes them out and makes the meat get whiter.

I agree, that is a lot of stripers for ANY fishery. I might have to hit ya yup and sample some of the fine bass and striper fishing on Ouchita. ;D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,224 Posts
Our river doesn't have enough current to tumble striper eggs 48 hours to hatch, so we're fortunate. Once I get the red out the taste is fine, but it's the odor cooking that my wife hates. She thinks it smells like a human skin burn. :p

Jim
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I don't know if he purposely snagged the fish but what I do know is that Perry's record can and will be broken soon. This fish won't count but I'm sure the next one will. It's just a matter of time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
I believe he did the right thing. I have snagged a lot of fish when I thought I was setting the hook. stuff happens. what I don't like and that's just me is fishing spawning game fish. It's to easy.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,383 Posts
i think 'record' lakes should close and only let rental boat out(maybe after the spawn too)...this way i have a chance too...& the lake would makes good money and keeps the pesky invaders out(like musles) lol
i will not take my canoe or any other infireor boat to a lake with trophy hunters pushing me around...but give them a rental boat and we even the playing field to all!!

something happens when you own a $40,000 boat meant for lunker hunting...it's somesort of ego trip that alot of fisher men seem to accire,i sure hope it's don't happen to me one day...lol~ now move it...

trout stocking...what about the bass that shouldn't be here in the first place...lol both are non native...
we just like to screw up everything then try to start over...lol

if no trout or bass was stocked, we would have 10# sacromento perch busting around...it wouldn't matter to me as long as i can fish um..

if you hunt lunkers there is no better time to catch mass poundage than at the spawn, you lose the record after the spawn, so if that is your goal to catch a record the best time is during the spawn...

i still think the next record will come off the lower Mississippi in some forgotten ox~bow, water that needs a good bushwak`n to get too....
& i'm sure some one in CA has already taking a bigger bass, but most likey it was eatin too... theres lots of poaching goin on! things like bait in no bait zones, barbs in no barb zones....people walking away with fish when there is no taking aloud...?
think about this for every ten # bass there is in CA there are a few million fishermen out there looking for them...
total population for ca~ 33,871,648(what the?) in Arkansas there is only a 2,673,400 in the state...so do some math~(not my best subject) even if only a 1/2 of ca fishes and a only half of those fish bass we still out number the hole state of AR(by about 5million) that could fish.. if all the fishers in CA went to AR we might catch a bunch of 10+# bass quik just with shear odds of hooks in the water...

34million fruits and nuts in this state, man i gotta get out of here!
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thoroughly enjoying following the whole debate :clap: :clap:
Great points made by all :dance01: :dance01:




bigun :twl:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,943 Posts
To enter the debate on C&R, I would side with Jim, we have a lake i fish that has a problem with too many "dinks". Honeyoye Lake near Rochester NY used to be known as a big fish lake, great habitat, plenty of forage, all that good stuff. Folks took big fish after big fish after big fish, now while there are still a few big fish, there are a ton of fat little fish. Good habitat still, good forage still, but the big fish are being cleaned out, it is compounded with the fact that it is a small lake that gets a ton of pressure. The D.E.C., when asked about it tell folks to take the small, but still legal fish, nobody does. I've seen tournaments where a 9lb limit will win, with 20 plus boats, you can catch 50 or 60 fish to get 7or 8 legal fish. I think that maybe, just maybe, folks should listen to the authorities when it comes to this, they do know what they are about, I trust them more than some tournament guy who is just spouting the cliche'. For most of you folks in the south, or in the midwest, be glad that your lakes are regulated on an indiviual bases, & listen to what the trained personnal say.
Rodney
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,383 Posts
~not so new flatulence AKA oldfart(lol) ~kinda on the opposite side of the coin we have a lake here that was closed do to weed infestation when they reopened they put a ~ 22" bass size as a keeper, none smaller can be kept, this is there way of making a lunker lake or tyring to anyway.
how can this be fun for kids or people who eat`um? do we want the 22"ers eating or even kept? not me i just wanna catch one 22"er from the confounded lake and let it go so someone else can eat it mount it or c&R it too..... i have maybe spent a total of 40hours over a few years on that lake(like once a year for 8 hours), i have yet to catch one bass that i need to pull out the measuring tape to check it's size, all are to small, and it wears on you...
this is a no fun to fish bass lake, to me...might take up jet sking on it....lol
i just come home feeling busted and broken then i read more, and wonder what i need to change to land a nice one from that lake... maybe more luck & with more time...or when the water is as low as possible?
the law on that lake is a steep one to follow unless lunker hunting is your true goal...
man i gotta go catch something big.......
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top