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Discussion starter · #41 ·
I agree that anglers should not build habitate on public lakes without coordinating their efforts with the lakes management. The main reason is navigation hazards. Fisherman can put some strange things into the lake thinking it improves the habitate for their secret spot. If these objects get loose and float just under the surface, it can ruin your day, prop, boat and cause injury.
Hydrilla was introduced into lakes by people dumping their tropical fish or gold fish into the lakes along with the fish tank weeds. The pet store weeds were hydrilla and the cute little gold fish morph into carp. Good intentions going haywire.
Coordinated projects with the lakes management to add habitate that is beneficial should be OK. We had a project to add shore line willows for Castaic lake that helped, because the lake had lost most of it's native chaparral brush due to soil erosion from water level fluctuations. The willows are tough and seem to survive the wave action and help slow down soil erosion.
I don't believe over harvest is a major issue with big lakes (over 20,000 surface acres), unless the ecosystem is in trouble from other issues. Draw downs during the spawn can cause severe problems for that year class of bass, however all bass don't spawn at the same time and a spawn will occur to some degree. Draw downs on the other hand have a benefit that allows grass and other vegetation to reestablish on the barren shore before the lake returns to full pool. The new organic materials decay and fertilize the water and give fish fry a place to hide. Like everything in nature, it's not all black and white, good or bad. The key is attaining a balance and that may go against our tendency to create conditions for our own benefit.
It would be good to list what, if any, are good habitate enhancement considerations, when and where they could be implemented. We are getting off C & R, habitate is definitely a related topic.
How about some input from other members! Jim and I can go on indefinitely on there topics, lets have more input to debate.
Tom
 
How about some input from other members! Jim and I can go on indefinitely on there topics, lets have more input to debate.
Ok I will play along. Personally this is how I take a statement like this that I quoted from Tom. I read this like these two are the only knowledge base on this forum and therefore any input from others who would dare to suggest any other point of view would not be included in the circle of trust so to speak (Movie line ;) ) thus perhaps resulting in only a few members venturing out with any info or knowledge they would share for fear of being shot down???

Now if that is a false view then please let me know. I would be happy to offer my apologies if that is the case. However, from where I sit this is what I happen to see and consider that line only including Tom and Jim as elitist in general.

I offered input on this subject yet my views where ignored and frivolized because perhaps I am not a biologist? :dunno: Yet, nothing I have stated has been adequately debated or refuted with facts. I might not be the sharpest tack in the box but I am not the dullest either. It does bother me I guess when I add to a post only to be ignored.

I have heard input from people for many years who are mostly older who believe removing big bass are indeed beneficial to a lake and therefore justify doing so every chance they get. Yet, when examples like Purtis Creek and the Stick Marsh (strict C&R only lakes) are presented to them somehow or another it gets off topic and is NEVER answered.

So since you asked for input Tom I thought I would share what I think and my opinion on this particular thread. I am trying to present a possible third view of things in order to help whoever (Perhaps you or anyone else myself included) understand that there are allot of people on this forum with knowledge that can speak about lots of subjects that might not be former Biologists, Forest Rangers, Big Bass expert's with many double digit bass under their belt's, yet capable of holding their own in discussions because of years of fishing knowledge and much reading and learning. Just don't write someone off because they don't have a very impressive resume like that. We ALL can learn something from everyone if we are pliable enough to receive it. I for one love to read forums for all the input. I learn so much from so many people. I also love to share some of the things I have learned over the years.

Here is a previous reply in this thread:

What I am saying, however, is no trophy bass lake can be built by not harvesting a an adequate number of big bass along with other size classes that are too numerous. It might reach trophy rating a year or two, but then will suddenly revert to a lake full of stunted bass.
To which I reply with this observation and question:

First, Stick Marsh/Farm 13 have been producing lunker bass every year since it's opening in the 80's. That is 20+ years of fish being caught in the teen class. This is one of the best lakes in the country and has been written about numerous times. It is suffering right now due to the 2004 hurricanes that ripped out the weeds making the fishing tougher as the fish are scattered around. But the fish are still there and still being caught just not as many as in years past. Also, Purtis Creek state park has had several SharLunkers from it's small waters. I have fished there many times and I have lost 2 very big bass into the trees in that lake. Every year numerous 10+lb bass are caught there and of course released.

Now the question then is:

How do lakes that have only observed strict catch and release regulations from day 1 prosper and continue to produce trophy class bass year after year after year, if doing so, is considered bad fish management?


I will await direct replies. If replies such as what have been used before in this thread are entered then I will no longer participate in such discussions as there will be no reason to.
 
Discussion starter · #43 ·
Thanks for stating how you feel. This is why I wanted everyone to participate because your thoughts are just as meaningful as anyone else's, including mine. Opens minds that share thoughts is the only reason for being involved with this board. Trying to understand why lakes with giant or big bass populations continue to thrive year after year is important. I mention early on that a lake near where I live has and continues to produce big bass for over 50 years that I know of, without any fishing pressure or management. The bass hatch and grow and then die off naturally, everything is in balance. If this lake was opened to catch and release only fishing, would it continue to achieve balance? My guess is no, the populations would go through the same boom & bust cycles that all the surrounding lakes go through. This is only my opinion based on what I know. Stick marsh and pond 13 are not only C & R, they are also live bait fished lakes. It's my belief that both these trophy bass lakes are restocked with adult bass annually to rejuvenate the fishery for the owners opporating them, is this true? Or are they public water that anyone can fish at anytime year around? Do they have bass tournaments on them weekly?
The two bass lakes that I refer to; lakes Casitas and Castiac are both public fisheries that have tremendous fishing pressure. C & R has made a big effect on both those lakes. I believe they would have experienced the same catastrophic big bass population collapses that the San Diego lakes experienced in the 80's, if C & R hadn't become so popular.
My point on the C & R issue is a % of bass die because they are caught, we should recognize that fact and improve how we handle bass and keep the dieing fish. I'm also against live bait fishing for big bass in small lakes, especially during pre spawn and spawning periods.
Thank you again for expressing yourself and I apologize for sounding or giving anyone the idea of elitism or smarter than anyone else. I'm just older.
Tom
 
My post will not be as long as others on this topic, because I don't know as much. I believe that the health of the fishery is more dependent on good cover and forage than anything else. The bass in highly pressured lakes are still there, but they learn subtle cues to differentiate between real forage and artificial. Also they move away from the cover and start to live like stripers. This is especially true of trophy spotted bass. Largemouth will do the same thing, although the trophy fish will rest on deeper cover through the day. I remember reading an article where a man watched a 10+ lb bass ignore everything he threw, even when he jigged his lure directly in the fish's face. I remember reading somewhere else that tropy fish actually produce more eggs during the spawn, and will bed more than once. This means that they are more likely to produce a successful spawn than smaller fish. In the long run, this doesn't mean much, as most of the eggs that hatch become forage within a week or two. The health of the lake determines how many of the fish survive to adulthood. That being said, adult fish die from stresses placed on them too. Not just C&R or harvesting, but from viruses, poor water quality, lack of forage, etc. IMO, the 25% dieing from tournament stress sounds like complete BS, a number manufactured by someone with an ulterior motive. If that were the case, I would not be able to go back to a spot a tournament released their fish and catch fish 2 days later with hooks stuck in their throats. Those fish would be in the worst shape of any at the weighin, and healthy enough to swallow a large shad when I showed up. I'll quit rambling now. :third:
 
I appreciate you clarifying your point Tom. I apologize for taking what you said wrong. I felt this way because I made valid points that you and Jim never responded to and I am concerned about that.

BTW, Stick Marsh/Farm 13 are connected and are basically 1 lake. They are not restocked by the FWC. Many, many folks fish with live shiners in this lake including most guides. Some fish no doubt die off from being hooked too deep or being poorly handled. Not to mention falling prey to Gators, Gar, Osprey and other critters that make a meal out of fish.

So apparently their is enough predation going on in this lake to keep the bass from being over populated and thus allow it to stay in harmony. This in turn allows some of these fish to attain massive size and bass grow in this lake on average of 2-3lbs per year. NO tournaments are ever on this lake as the game wardens do not even allow you to put a fish in your livewell. If they catch you doing this it is an instant ticket. I even asked them if I were to catch a new state record and called them to come out and verify the fish that they would and I was told that I would be given a ticket for keeping the fish even if it was a new Florida state record even if the fish was not harmed. I think that is kinda hilarious. But it is what it is.

Purtis Creek on the other hand is a small 400 acre lake in east Texas that has no gators or large predators other then gar. No Osprey's and in the winter time an occasional bald eagle will make a home there. Yet, this little gem of a lake produces big bass all the time. This lake is not restocked either by TP&W.

My opinion is that keeping large bass is not a beneficial thing for a lake at all. It allows some bait fish to grow too large and thus out compete bass for smaller organisims that small bass fry depend on. Gizzard shads for instance get too large and then actually start to hurt a fishery rather then help it by eating small organisims and even small fish. Big bass help to keep Gizzard shad in check. Everytime a 7lber or an 8lber or a 9lber or 10+ etc is removed that is one less fish that is capable of eating 10-12 inch long gizzard shad, or larger then average bream or bluegills. Besides all that for me I look at it as selfish to keep a big bass. I am sorry but the reason you or anyone else ever caught a trophy bass is because someone before you caught it and released it. Unless you are fishing in a private pond where you and you alone fish, bass that acheived trophy status have been caught before. So like I have said before, those who have caught 10lb bass or larger at Lake Fork, Purtis Creek and a semi private lake I used to live on can thank me for letting that fish go when it weighed 5lbs, 6lbs, 7lbs, 8lbs or even 9lbs. If not me guys like me. So for someone to break that chain and keep that fish to me is selfish and I can never respect that.
 
Discussion starter · #47 ·
I watched Shaw Grigsby show a fewyears ago fishing Stick Marsh area. The purpose of this particular program was getting footage of catching big bass on tubes because Shaw was promoting his tube hook at the time. Shaw stated he had permission to catch big bass solely for the purpose of restocking. The owner of a guide service was taped with Shaw putting big bass into a pontoon boat with large tanks and talking about the need to replenish big bass to keep the fishing at it's peak for his customers. This film lead me to believe that Stick Marsh was a private trophy fish area that you paid a guide to fish. A good friend of mine did just that, paid a guide to fish and all the guy brought with him was golden shiners to fish with. My friend caught a lot of 5 lb to 8 lb bass and was disappointed with the fact that he had to bait fish. This was back in the mid 90's and from what you indicate the area is now open to the public and the Florida Fish and Game manages Stick Marsh and Pond 13. However you look at it Stick Marsh isn't like any public reservoir in the country, therefor a unique trophy fishing area. I'm sure something can be learned from Stick Marsh/Pond 13 if the C & R mortality rates were monitored. Bass that die do not always become a floater, sea gulls, osprey, turtles and in Florida alligators clean dieing fish up quickly when they are on the surface. Fishing pressure is low at Stick Marsh/Pond13 compared to public recreation reservoirs that have marina's renting boats for weekenders, local clubs and regional sanctioned bass tournaments every weekend. Stick Marsh at 6,000 surface acres is 2 1/2 times larger than lake Casitas or Castiac for example, both are less then 2,500 acres.
I also don't understand you point about killing big bass? I haven't killed one that I know of in over 25 years and that equates to over 300 bass 10+lbs. No one has tried harder to save the giant bass population than I have.
Who posted the value of big bass on this site, I did! C & R in my opinion is a good practice and so is selective harvest where it's appropriate. My point is keep bass if they are dieing, otherwise you are just feeding the birds.
Do a better job of handling bass and install oxygenation system, if you are a tournament fisherman that needs to keep bass in a live well. Insist that the weigh master have appropriate holding tanks or a release boat on the water.
Saying that C & R kills bass is like telling parents their baby is ugly, there is too much emotion attached and the damage is done. C & R isn't perfect and it does kill a percentage of bass due to handling. We can except the biologist expert studies or believe whatever we want, the facts are 10 to 30 % of C & R bass today die and I think we can do a better job than that.
If you look at where we came from, many states didn't have daily bass bag limits. 15 bass, the daily limit that BASS adopted, were brought to the scales by each angler. The average of 150 boats for a 2 day tournament. The bass were loaded into trucks, iced down and given to charities. This practice appalled me and I wrote BASS Ray Scott several letters stating that this practice looks bad and may be damaging the future of organized bass fishing. Ray scoffed at the idea that bass fisherman could impact a bass fishery and was forced to changed to C & R, that he now claims as his idea and thats OK with me. BASS was under a lot of pressure to make the change to C & R and it was the right move. Now I think they need to improve the handling and transportation of tournament caught bass to lower the mortality rate or as they say, improve the survival rate. It's coming sooner then you think. Release boats will be at every BASS or FLW sanctioned event and oxygenation systems will become standard equipment. There is too much pressure from the animal rights people to continue looking like we don't care about survivability of the bass that are caught.
Tom
 
I'm not familiar with Farm 13 or Purtis Creek. I can't get specific about those without a lot of information not presented yet, and I haven't found what I need on the web. I suspect they are nutrient rich and the habitat is highly protected.

I don't remember posting about this here, but have elsewhere several times. My PB largemouth was a little over 14#, from a private lake south of Orlando, FL. The only way to get on it is through a local guide. When I was there I saw about 30 boats out fishing. My bait was a 12" soft plastic or rubber custom snake with a live shiner lip-hooked at the head hook. The lake was a habitat dream, managed solely for trophy bass. By the time I got my bass in it was totally exhausted, rolled on its side after release, then taken by the guide when the eyes popped out. That lake is regularly upgraded with forage as needed, literally force feeding the bass. Brush piles are planted constantly. Quite a lot of money is spent there. It's big business, and C&R by choice of the club. Harvesting is only for dead or dying bass.

But I'm not proud of that PB. I didn't like using a live shiner. I don't mind doing that for stripers and wipers, crappie, catfish, etc. . But that's what it takes to catch those monsters. Using live bait is prohibited in major tournaments, and is a direct conflict of interest to be allowed on a C&R lake. The baits are swallowed far more than 100% artificial lures. GULP! has been banned from some fisheries and maybe the FLW because of the deep hooking problem which adds mortality.

My opinion about high mortality rates from any tournament catching and handling is based on the experts that are respected in the fisheries world, like Gene Gilliland. Guys like that don't become spokesmen for the sport while putting out bad information. They are weeded out by peers. If we can't believe their research, we can't believe anyone or anything other than what we already believe.

I don't want to spawn aggravated discussion here. I won't do it. I state what I believe, others should do so. When folks start getting offended I just drop the subject and move to something else.

A small fishery full of monster bass has a definite impact on recruitment. Many surviving fry are eaten by bigger bass, assuring that mostly big bass fill the population curve. Even though big bass lay more eggs, the fry quickly compete for fry forage, and many of those die from starvation before becoming fingerlings. That might be why a constant C&R status remains, in an attempt to restock more age classes. Allowing live bait is a tool that works around 100% C&R. That adds one more cause of death other than old age and disease, for instance. The whole of the fishery dynamic is not known and maybe never will be. Managers have to act based on what they do know, and if many age classes are missing, harvest is not an option. Enforcing the catching of a particular size class is too expensive, so it makes sense to stop all of it. In general, a regularly C&R fishery is simply not an ideal one that can be sustained at present levels indefinitely.

Another factor not mentioned yet is the relative short lifespans of hot water bass. Their life cycle is about half that of northern bass. But, their spawn lasts longer, more fry are produced, adding to their forage base.

Jim
 
Tom, Stick Marsh/Farm 13 have never been a private lake at any time. It has always been a public lake that anyone with a Florida license can go to and fish. If the FWC gave Shaw Grigsby p[ermission to keep fish then I am not aware of that. I saw that show also and don't remember the pontoon boat. Do you remember all that hydrilla Shaw was fishing his tube down in? That is all gone now. Anyway, guides can be hired by anyone and most guides use live shiners due to the fact that most people want to catch a 10lber and it is easier to catch those big fish here on live bait then on lures. I do not fish with shiners.

Jim, if I had caught that 14lber I would be stocked and would be proud of catching it. But I agree catching bass on artificials adds a little extra specialness to it. Catching a bass on a homemade lure well, nothing compares to that in my book.

Thanks for the input.
 
My guide was disappointed that fish was the best boated. He was hoping for larger! We released it, and when boating back by saw it floundering. We ate it at the lodge. Divers have seen largemouths that large in the deep waters of Lake Ouachita, at the dam. It wasn't necessary to go to Florida to catch a dream bass if I were to fish live bait on my own here. A big shad sunk deep could bring one up if a striper doesn't find it first. However, the numbers of large bass on that little FL lake astounded me. Nobody has matched that here. It was like fishing in a goldfish bowl full of starving fish. One bass after another until I couldn't cast without slinging the rod into the lake. Back then, one year I can't remember and about 1990, they let 10 #ers shake off, not worth boating. Anyway, that fish cost me $250, and I sure wish it came on 100% artificial.

I don't normally fish for trophy bass, targeting eaters under 4#. I prefer much smaller. When I have plenty of fish I don't harvest and don't fish as hard or long. Our bass taste as good as crappie here, nobody able to tell the difference when piled on the table. All under 13" are C&R.

I'm very happy to see so much fish talk here. Let's keep it going.

Jim
 
I practice C&R religiously, as I'm sure the majority of people here do. However, I respect your opinion, Jim. The lake I went to today, Allatoona, is a really bad bass fishery. It is mostly a hybrid/striper/crappie lake. The bass population is 90% spotted bass, and the majority of the bass in the lake are under 2 lbs. The ACE is currently doing a study to find out why so many of the fish are so small. IMO, it is a result of lack of habititat and lack of good forage, esp. since they have to compete with other species so much. Also, The lake fluctuates 20-30 feet. I don't think it is a population problem, mainly just a competition/lack of forage/lack of cover problem. On this lake, C&R is a must, unless the ACE decides that the lake is over populated with dinks- then it would be a matter of eating every 12" bass I caught. But to bring it all to a point (because I have a friend on the phone), I think in most situations it is best to C&R all fish, unless biologists say different.
 
Discussion starter · #52 ·
I know you directed this to Jim and I'm sure he will reply in detail. I just wanted to throw this bit of information out regarding spotted bass. There are at least 2 different strains of spots; Northern (Micropterus Punctulatu Punc.) and Alabama (Micropterus Punculatus Henshalli) The Alabama spotted bass has more lateral line scales and grows larger than Northern spotted bass. Northern's are sometimes called Kentucky spotted bass and only grow to 12" - 20" as adults. The Alabama spotted bass grows well over 8 lbs., the CA and WR is 10.27 lbs caught at Pine Flats reservoir in central CA, 2001.
The reason I bring this up is Allatoona lake may be stocked with Northern (Kentucky) spots and they don't grow much larger than 3 lbs.
Pine Flats reservoir is located on the west side of the Sierra's, east of Bakersfield on the Kings river. 30 foot water fluctuations are common on Pine Flat, multi specie lake, no striper's! Strippers in my opinion take over the top predator slot in any fresh water lake they inhabit. Bass lakes that have both strippers and LMB, the LMB must adapt to becoming a secondary predator. The lake forage must be able to sustain both strippers and LMB or the LMB population will suffer. Spots and strippers both prefer deeper water and the spots tend to clean up and get the left overs after the stripper school devastates shad school for example. Spots tend to coexist a little better than LMB with a reservoir with a stripper population.
If you C & R 100% of the bass you are catching, especially spots from deep water, over 40', then you are releasing some bass that die as a result. I realize that you don't agree and that is not a problem because most bass fisherman don't agree that C & R practiced carefully cases bass mortality. My point is recognition and better handling will improve C & R survivability.

Tom
 
I agree, spots remain dinky compared to LMBs. Their general size can really suffer when too many compete for the same forage. They need to be thinned out too, or nature does it for us.

We should begin reading a significant increase in alarms from fisheries biologists around the nation concerned about the overall effect of too much armchair C&R management. Where they require it they are putting their careers on the line, the harvesting public sure to challenge. They better have the data to support that decision. Where they don't require or recomend that, they know the eventual result is too many dinks. It's just the natural outcome. They recommend size classes that need thinning to protect those size classes. Too many little fish gobble up too much of the lower end of the food chain. Then the survivors compete in a death spiral, few making it to large sizes. Even old bass remain stunted and can stay 2# all their lives. Add to it all the demands of other species, some more voracious than black bass.

Sure, it's possible tp manage a small fishery for 100% trophy bass, but at the expense of sustained bass populations distributed in healthy size class numbers. It isn't natural to have too many trophy bass in a fishery. We see that when, like Tom mentioned, stripers are added to compete for the same forage used by black bass. That sets up an unnatural pecking order, changing black bass into mostly scavengers instead of predator/opportunists. When that happens they have to swim too far to gather food, the leftovers of stripers. All populations begin to suffer, including the stripers, which can't contribute to an average inland fishery. They can't produce fry that add to the forage base. Stripers require 48 hours of flowing water to keep their eggs suspended. Only egg eaters like carp benefit. Stripers are 100% takers.

Old bass die and fail to be replaced. While the lake full of big bass stays that way, something will take over eating the lower food chain. Nature doesn't waste. It balances itself. How do they keep the bass in there? Eventually they have to be stocked, but sometimes that won't work either because of too many predators that eat bass fingerlings the moment they are put in :sad2: I've taken part in stocking them countless times, pouring a bucket in the lake, only to see 100 LMB or striper mouths slam into them.

Jim
 
Man! I am willing to bet everything that you can not find as much good information in any 10 magazines as there is in this thread! I think I need to figure out a way to preserve and make readily available threads of this magnificence and magnitude so that years from now, new members (or even us who already are a member) can easily find and read them. I'm not sure how yet but I will figure it out :thumbup01:

If you have any input towards this idea, please refrain from posting in t his thread and see my thread started in Suggestion Box under Help Desk board

http://thebassholes.com/bassin-forums/index.php?topic=1910.0

Anyway, my apologies for momentarily hi-jacking your thread guys. It's all yours again! :D
 
catch and release or selective harvesting? i usually go to a local reservoir the is loaded with Dinks.there have been days that i have caught close to 100 bass in one outing.occasionally a 2 #er.this is not a typical bowl shaped res. it actually has nice flat at either end with nice sloping banks on the other.i fish strictly c&r when it comes to LMB but i have no problem with anyone else keeping a few and last year even helped several people fill out a stringer.
i guess my question is should i harvest more lmb to help the others get bigger.it is a small res. in central Ohio not much for trees or stumps but a very nice plant life growing in it,The deepest I've found in it was 23 ft.
rich
 
Thank ya'll for your replies, but the lake I am talking about is contains the Al.(Coosa River) species. I am not totally opposed to eating fish, If I hook one and cannot revive it, I will harvest it. However, a great day there is a 10-fish day. There is a tourny every year that draws 100+ boats, many of them top local tourny fishermen, usually in early May- prime fishing time. This tourny is won with abut 17- 18 lbs, by somebody who ran upriver, every year. My PB spot out of this lake was a 3-15. This lake is located between Lanier and Weiss, both great fisheries. It is a flood control lake, as described by ACE. Fishing is not even listed as a priority or objective of the lake with them. There are 2-4 wildcat tournaments on it every week, drawing from 20-40 boats. The lake is listed as about 12,000 acres at full pool. Weekends in the summer find this lake covered with jet skis, Master craft boats pulling skiers, cabin cruisers, etc. It is primarily a playground for Atl. boaters. GON (Georgia Outdoor News) refers to it as " The Dead Sea". If I didn't live within sight of it's water, I'd never fish it again. A lake approximately 45minutes up the road, Carters Lake, is far better. An average day there is looking for that limit fish when you know it's time to go. This lake has blueback herring, awesome fishing, and is far less crowded than Allatoona. The spotted bass there are far more abundant, as it is common to catch several on the same point in thde summer. The spot/lmb ratio is similar, but the fish are better size. I would rate it as equal to, if not better than, Lanier. I do not fish Lanier much for two reasons. First, boat traffic. It is dangerous to be on that lake in the summer in anything less than a good fiberglass boat. Second, it is too big for me to cover water effectively in my jonboat. If I had a main motor, I would spend more time there in late fall through early spring. I refuse to launch there in the summer months in my jonboat. But to carry on with this thread, I see no reason to damage a healthy population of bass by harvesting everything I catch, or further reducing an already suffering fishery. If a fish is doomed, it tastes good, but I refuse to keep a fish that would have swimmed(?) away. I Like taco bell better anyway.
 
KeithsCatch said:
Got into a debate at the boat ramp today while waiting for our Sunday tournament about keeping big bass. Seems a guy who owns a taxidermy shop fishes this local tournament. Anyway, I overheard him say that he keeps every big bass he happens to catch. I said how sad and he replied that it doesn't hurt the fishery any to keep 10lbers. I disagreed wholeheartedly. He then bragged saying he has 10 such bass on his wall now and hopes to have 100 of them some day.

This guy was off the hook rediculous and I plainly told him that replica's are better then skin mounts anyway. To which he disagreed. I said well maybe not yours but the ones in Texas sure are.

Anyway, I was not amused and told him that this is the main reason I believe that Florida will never challenge the world record bass as too many bozos keep their big fish here. He said our lakes are too shallow and thus too warm which stresses them out and is why our bass don't live as long as in other states so according to him they are all going to die anyway so why not keep them?

I mention all of this because he is not alone. Several anglers fishing this small tourney agreed with him. Sometimes I really feel out of place here in Florida. Most seem to agree with this guys philosophy and keep these monster fish. This of course saddens me. On forums however, the Florida anglers all or mostly oppose this practice but the ones I meet at boat ramps seem to favor keeping trophy sized bass. Just makes me sick.
I admire you for standing by your convictions and not backing down. While keeping every 10lb'er for a mount is ridiculous, I have nothing against someone who may be down visiting, hiring a charter, and who will never have a likely shot at catching a bass over 10lbs. I have caught probbaly 10 to 15 bass over 10lbs, and mounted one that went 12.5lb's. It was an extremely rough day weather wise, and had worked my rear off to get her in. I've seen the replicas and they are indeed lifelike, but in my opinion, I know it's not the fish I caught and thus doesn't mean a hill of beans to me. My mount is a skin mount and the fish on my wall is the fish I worked my tail off for on that blustery wet winter day.

If I get a hankerin' for fish I go to Red Lobster or head out on the flats for some trout and a redfish. Aside from the one I had mounted, I can't remember the last time I kept a bass to eat. But, it's nice knowing that with my paid in full fishing license, and by adhering to the state game laws, that should I ever get the hankerin' to keep a bass that I have the full right to do so should I chose. I am almost a full time tournament angler so the odds of me ever keeping bass from a public lake are almost nil. I have access to quite a few private lakes and ponds and would keep some small bass to thin the population if I ever do decide to keep some.

This is just my humble opinion on the matter. :grin:
 
Discussion starter · #58 ·
Jay,
Please don't take this personally. Your reply is exactly the type of logic that I have been fighting for years and you are no different than the majority of bass fisherman. I don't understand why a skin mount is any different that a fiberglass reproduction. Your skin mount will deteriorate, the fiberglass will not and last years. The vast majority of bass fisherman want to mount their personal best by killing the bass when a measurement of the length and girth is all that is needed. Your 12.5 bass isn't any different than any other 12.5 with the same measurements. The skin is stretched over a mandrel and painted verses the fiberglass mold is painted. The only difference is your skin mounted fish ended up in the dumpster, the fiberglass replica bass may be still alive and growing.
Thousands of big bass end up the same as yours every year, killed for a trophy. If the bass is measured, using a length of fishing line, photographed if needed and then release it. If the bass is showing signs of severe stress and can't be revived, then keep it as it will die anyway. Today a taxidermist doesn't need or want your bass to make a mount that looks better than the skin mount.
Tom
Ps; to determine bass weight use this formula: length X length X girth divided by 1200 = weight in pounds.
 
We will agree to disagree. But, it's nice that we can voice our opinions and beliefs in a forum without worry of being bashed to hell.

Thanks to everyone in this thread for voicing well thought out points of view on such a touchy subject. It's a well rounded conversation and debate that fuels others to make an educated decision or form of opinion that best suits their belief's.
 
Discussion starter · #60 ·
Thank you for being such a good sport about such an emotional topic, my hats off to you, you are a true sportsman and look foreward to sharing whatever may be of interest or what may help your bass fishing. Tom
 
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