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FIZZING AND POST TOURNAMENT MORTALITY RATES

10K views 21 replies 8 participants last post by  Sharkbite 
G
#1 ·
Hello to all: I am a long time lurker, this may be the only post I will ever put up. I see a lot of very well intentioned posts on this particular board, and some of the information, while well intentioned may do more harm than good. This is being written with all respect and I can tell you all where to go read more material

1. FIZZING; a very dangerous and maybe fruitless practice. There is major concern among fishery biologists that by the time we notice the fish suffering the effects of rapid depressurization of the swim bladder that the neurological damage may be so great that it is already to late to "save" this fish and may be putting it through even more trauma for nothing. This is not from crackpot science and a mere search on Goggle will show you, at least a half a dozen studies from DEP's of various states and a few universities that show this in detail. We are talking scientific and peer reviewed ,published scientific papers
A search by Netscape will give you even more, just check PEER REVIEWED ARTICLES ONLY

2. Our sport in the tournament area is supressing the post mortality , the true long term post mortality rates, and they need to change their catch and release practices. The Falcon event was the first time in a long while that , because the catches were so large and the livewells too small that the public got a look at a lot of floaters on that lake, I know I fished Falcon 3 days after the event. There was some livewell product company down there suppressing all evidence and photos
If competitive fishing is going to survive we need non corporate research. I think the way to go is with weigh in barges , but this is personal choice, and I do not have enough evidence to back this up yet.

What we do not need is remote weigh ins, in venues away from the water, in elaborate made for ESPN weigh ins, we are asking for trouble this way

Thank you for reading this
 
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#2 ·
Thanks for your insight Upstream. If this is your first post, after lurking for a long time, it's obvious this is something that you're very concerned with. I hope it won't be your last post, because input and concerns such as yours, is what helps create debate and further research into particular areas.

I too have read mixed reviews about fizzing. I guess my take on it is this...Even if only 50% of the fish that are "fizzed" survive, isn't that better than none surviving at all?

Personally, I would love to see barges used during tournaments. This practice would allow the anglers to check in their fish any time during the day, up to the max limit allowed. The downside to it is the fact that fisherman would never want to bring their fish in early to do so, in hopes of being able to cull their smaller fish. What could still work however, are staggered weigh-in times to allow barges to still be used, eliminating all the handling of the fish during normal, lengthy weigh-ins.
This may prove to be cost prohibitive in a high % of the tournaments however, and virtually impossible, in others. But again, if some could do it, anything is better than nothing in my opinion.
 
#3 ·
Very good points and insights. I agree Mo these types of Debates are what get people motivated to do something about things that concern them, which is a great thing. Upsteam I agree to that I hope that this is not the only post that you make :clap:

You have shown a great interest and concern in this matter and I would hope that you will follow through in finding a resolution. I wouldn't think that culling fish would be a big issue as they would only need count your top weights, that would just be an excuse not to do it in my opinion. As for the fizzing of fish there were a few suggestions on alternative methods brought up before. Maybe a little research on this could prove to be valueable in the future.

As with all of life's pleasures we all enjoy there are cautions we must all take. I hope that we all show concerns in that, and not get stuck in a repetitive pattern until it's gone.

Thank you for the reminder Upstream and welcome to the board :notworthy: :notworthy:
 
#4 ·
I think more research by qualified people definitely needs to be done, if we can put a man on the moon, I think we can come up with a better solution to help the post mortality rate drop, keeping in mind, that some fish will die, no matter what is done. I think anglers need to take better care of their fish as soon as their caught, like keep them off the deck, or if there hooked deep just cut the line, its only a 75 cent hook. And if nets are used use the type that don't harm the fish.But keep in mind that fishing know matter how good are intension's, it is still a blood sport.
 
#5 ·
1. Non contestant bass fisherman have no real reason to fizz a bass, they (we) can be quickly lower back down to depth it was caught using a torpedo sinker rig.
2. Catch and release boats are used in some tournaments, however the damage is already done to the bass in regards to the air bladder or brain depending on the depth the was neutralized to suspend at.
3. Tournament anglers to officially weigh there catch and weigh ins are a big part of sport of tournament bass fishing.
The only logical way to reduce high mortality rates during the cold water period in tournaments is; not have cold water period tournaments or restrict the depth bass can be caught during a cold water tournament. If a bass needs to be fizzed, then you can't count it's weight.
When you think about fizzing a bass; you are not only wounding the basses air bladder, you may be putting water in the air bladder. The brain damage aspect must also be studied; very deep caught bass tend to become zombies and can't feed.
The picture becomes fodder for the anti fishing people, it give them something to take pictures of and use against the sport of bass fishing.
Tom
 
#6 ·
Upstream said:
Hello to all: I am a long time lurker, this may be the only post I will ever put up. I see a lot of very well intentioned posts on this particular board, and some of the information, while well intentioned may do more harm than good. This is being written with all respect and I can tell you all where to go read more material

1. FIZZING; a very dangerous and maybe fruitless practice. There is major concern among fishery biologists that by the time we notice the fish suffering the effects of rapid depressurization of the swim bladder that the neurological damage may be so great that it is already to late to "save" this fish and may be putting it through even more trauma for nothing. This is not from crackpot science and a mere search on Goggle will show you, at least a half a dozen studies from DEP's of various states and a few universities that show this in detail. We are talking scientific and peer reviewed ,published scientific papers
A search by Netscape will give you even more, just check PEER REVIEWED ARTICLES ONLY

2. Our sport in the tournament area is supressing the post mortality , the true long term post mortality rates, and they need to change their catch and release practices. The Falcon event was the first time in a long while that , because the catches were so large and the livewells too small that the public got a look at a lot of floaters on that lake, I know I fished Falcon 3 days after the event. There was some livewell product company down there suppressing all evidence and photos
If competitive fishing is going to survive we need non corporate research. I think the way to go is with weigh in barges , but this is personal choice, and I do not have enough evidence to back this up yet.

What we do not need is remote weigh ins, in venues away from the water, in elaborate made for ESPN weigh ins, we are asking for trouble this way

Thank you for reading this
I agree with upstream about the fact by the time it's weigh-in it may be too, what i paractice is, when i catch a fish in deep water, it goes in the well for 15 minutes then i fizz the fish, i find this works better, as far as mortality, i have have caught fish and seen the fizzing scar or missing scale, so it must work to some extent if done proberly.Taking fish to deeper water on release helps as well, i don,t agree with releasing them in shallow bays and inlets.
 
#7 ·
Upstream said:
Hello to all: I am a long time lurker, this may be the only post I will ever put up. I see a lot of very well intentioned posts on this particular board, and some of the information, while well intentioned may do more harm than good. This is being written with all respect and I can tell you all where to go read more material

1. FIZZING; a very dangerous and maybe fruitless practice. There is major concern among fishery biologists that by the time we notice the fish suffering the effects of rapid depressurization of the swim bladder that the neurological damage may be so great that it is already to late to "save" this fish and may be putting it through even more trauma for nothing. This is not from crackpot science and a mere search on Goggle will show you, at least a half a dozen studies from DEP's of various states and a few universities that show this in detail. We are talking scientific and peer reviewed ,published scientific papers
A search by Netscape will give you even more, just check PEER REVIEWED ARTICLES ONLY

2. Our sport in the tournament area is supressing the post mortality , the true long term post mortality rates, and they need to change their catch and release practices. The Falcon event was the first time in a long while that , because the catches were so large and the livewells too small that the public got a look at a lot of floaters on that lake, I know I fished Falcon 3 days after the event. There was some livewell product company down there suppressing all evidence and photos
If competitive fishing is going to survive we need non corporate research. I think the way to go is with weigh in barges , but this is personal choice, and I do not have enough evidence to back this up yet.

What we do not need is remote weigh ins, in venues away from the water, in elaborate made for ESPN weigh ins, we are asking for trouble this way

Thank you for reading this
Sorry upstream, but fizzing is not a fruitless practice. It should be done by the angler in the boat within fifteen minutes of the catch, or in some cases immediately. The biologists you speak of are really scared right now of the study we are doing here on Lake Amistad on the very subject. We have debunked their myth's, and as well have shown that SALTWATER fish CANNOT be compared to freshwater largemouth bass. Fizzing is a valuable component of the tournament angler. The tournament you spoke of at Falcon ended up the way it did because the ANGLERS WERE NOT TAUGHT HOW TO DO FISH CARE. PERIOD. ESPN was warned of the size of catches that were going to be caught. Trip Weldon did NOTHING and said "Nothing we can't handle". He was quite wrong. Educating the anglers was the key. They did nothing. The livewell company you spoke of wasn't supressing anything . THEY were the one's taking pictures to bust espn's cherry and try to get something done. Their company name is SURELIFE, since you are afraid to mention it or didn't bother to ask Tony and Lane Gergely who they were. They are the biggest advocates in fish care in the state of texas, bar none. The study we are currently doing on Amistad with Texas Parks and Wildlife is the ONLY fizzing/Barotrauma study that is out there to date for largemouth bass. Your biologist googling is quite incorrect when it comes to the largemouth bass species. Wayne, You are correct in that it needs to be done within 15 minutes of capture. Our studies also show that fish that rode around upside down in a livewell all day can also be saved. And the FACT that not all bass suffer the type damage described, with the exception of a fish brought up quickly from extreme depths, such as 50 ft. or deeper. Even when released immediately, these fish most often can't go back down. SO, do your research with the people who know, not some wanna be bass biologists that uses a saltwater grouper with it's stomach stuck out it's throat. Tell them to get in the water and study these fish for a week or so like we are doing. Tell them to have them in a holding area that is 40 ft. deep for observation. Tell them to come to Lake Amistad and actually LEARN what is what instead of copying each other off of a paper somebody wrote on a saltwater study. Regards.
 
#8 ·
Oh, and by the way, the South Texas Anglers Sportsman's Association is taking the forefront on tournaments. We are getting weigh-in docks built for Lakes Amistad, Falcon, and Choke Canyon for fish care purposes so fish don't have to sit in a weigh-in bag and run out of oxygen 5 minutes later while the angler waits in line for 20 minutes. Docks are built over deep water. All components of fish care are being taken into consideration with these structures, with the main focus being EDUCATION of the Angler on fish care procedures. Livewell care, dissolved oxygen levels, slime coat regeneration, temperature control,fizzing etc. etc. . Our study and fish care methods that will be coming out on a national level VERY soon is gonna blow the lid off of many a biologists hat and some are VERY worried. The phone calls and meetings we have had with some of the Texas biologists proves it. They are WANTING to know what we are doing. Which, I am glad they are concerned. The docks will have revetments for 30 boats, which can handle any size tournament that is currently run in the U.S. that has staggered flight weigh-in's. All the equipment will be self contained on the structure. Will even have a stage for the camera's such as the Elite Series or FLW events. On a side note, ask Charlie Evans of FLW fame who I am. He will tell you that I am the ONLY one that has been allowed to fizz fish in an FLW event. It happened here at Amistad, when their drop basket way of sending fish back down failed. Stay tuned for info coming from Amistad. Will be interesting to see the fall out in the biological world.
 
#9 ·
Since you are taking the lead on fizzing bass, you may want to question when it is necessary to fizz a bass.
The lake Falcon event that focused high rate bass mortality on major professional tournaments, was held during pre spawn to spawn transition, a seasonal period when bass are not deeper than 30'.
The Falcon bass where not over stressed from over inflated swim bladders, they were over stressed and rolled over. Fizzing an over stressed bass to allow it to swim upright doesn't change the fact the bass is over stressed and may die as a result. Keeping the bass in cool 70 degree water and well oxygenated is the key to low post mortality during seasonal periods when bass are not in water deeper than 30'.
When bass are in water deeper than 40', the swim bladder issue becomes a problem and so does brain damage. Fizzing can relieve bladder gases, however brain damage is permanent.
The simple solution is penalize bass anglers who catch bass from water deeper than 40' with a 1 pound per fish penalty, or avoid holding tournaments during seasonal periods where bass are holding in water deeper than 40'.
Tom
 
#10 ·
A bass needs to be fizzed anytime they cannot right themselves and float on the surface. The falcon tournament was POSTSPAWN, with them transitioning out to their summer haunts. Most of those fish came out of 25 ft. or deeper. The reason those fish were floating was because NO fish care was done in the boat by the angler. Plus the fact that the team that was doing the weigh-in release boats could not keep up with the fizzing duties and a lot of them were released with no treatment. A fish that has been fizzed properly DOES NOT FLOAT, unless they are dead and gases inside the stomach expand. Like I said in my previous post, water temp. and depth caught were the keys to Falcon. The surelife people TOLD TRIP to tell his anglers to add ice to their livewells since the temps were over 80 degrees. They were stressed because the anglers did NOTHING, whether it was fizzing or cooling off their livewells and putting a chlorine neutralizer in it. Also the FACT that you may have to fizz a fish that was hooked in a foot of water if they don't cool off their livewells, or that fish may have come out of 30 ft. to bust a topwater . Barotrauma is Barotrauma wherever or however it exists. Brain damage ? Did these biologists ask the fish ? An interview perhaps. Our in the field observations have noted they do just fine, without the damage when procedures are done correctly and in the right time frame. Radio tracking of several 8-10 lb. fish for a year and a half proved it. Their habits of any kind, whether it was feeding or habitat usage or location by time of year did not change. Damage was NOT permanent when the procedure was done immediately.The simple solution is to EDUCATE the tournament anglers on how to do things. Not the belief that your fish has to be caught out of over 40 to have to do this. The fish here on Amistad routinely need this procedure from depths of as little as a foot to 20 ft. on out to 70 or 80 ft. .
 
#11 ·
By the way, prespawn and spawn for Falcon is december, january, and february. I grew up here. I know. I was fishing beds in the Basschamps tournament 2 months before they ever got there.Watch the film. The hump Bryon and the other guy got into a soap opera about who was on who's fish is at the mouth of the Tigers. Deep water. So was the point Ish and Paul Elias were on. And the 20 ft. level has historically been "deep" for that lake. When questioned about their fish care, and I was standing right there to hear it, they simply explained "I didn't have time". Those fish died because of lack of education, and in some cases, the anglers just don't care.
 
#12 ·
The way I see it. I have seen in the spring time , crappie and striper fisherman kill more l.m.b then the tournament guys do. They throw nothing back, they catch and cook. I have seen them clean 100 crappie and 7 to 9lb l.m.b. But the tournament guys kill a few fish in a tournament, and they did something wrong. Most tournament guys have respected for the fish, and do everything they can to keep it alive. So does it really matter. I say if the fish needs fizzed give it a try, and do what you can to keep the fish alive. In my club all dying fish or dead fish are kept.
 
#13 ·
Tom and Lane Gergely of Sure-Life, who make live well additives, have a great deal of knowledge on this subject and people I have a great deal of respect for.
You should call them 800/846.6524.
I'm just a fisherman who has been catching giant bass for decades and know from first hand experience what stresses big bass when caught during different seasonal periods at various depths. In my opinion there is no reason to fizz bass caught in water less than 30', during pre spawn, spawn and post spawn.
In would like to read the tracking study of tagged tournament bass caught, fizzed and released. The number of bass and the size of the bass involved in this study is very important.
Tom
 
#14 ·
Lane and Tony are two people we work with VERY CLOSELY. They will tell you the same thing I have. The person you see on the video they have on the website is Charles Stewart. My #1 man on my fish care team. They filmed their video right here with us involved in making it. They know what it involves just as we do. They have been preaching to people about fish care for YEARS, but nobody listens. That is why as I type this I have their fish care technician shirt on as we speak. Their products are in our weigh-in tanks, my boat, my store. We are a team. No need for a phone call on my end. Call them and you will find out how closely we do work together. Go ahead, don't fizz them...... and when you observe these same fish for a week or two (if they last that long) watch what they do. And you will see what a fish with barotrauma has left of their vital organs when they get smashed by that inflated air bladder. Call tony and lane and you will learn a great deal.........
 
#15 ·
I haven't talked to Lane for awhile due to her illness, how is she doing?
The fact I don't need to bring big bass to weigh in and can release them immediately, unless I don't want them turning off a bite.
My method of releasing bass caught deep enough to have over pressured swim bladders is simply placing a 12 oz torpedo sinker in the mouth that is slipped onto a line and lower the bass back down to the depth it was hooked a soon as possible. No hole in the air bladder to heal. If I decide to keep a big bass for a few minutes, I put them on a weighted stringer and keep them down about 8' in the cooler lake water. Where I fish is deep structured lakes with little brush, no seals or alligators, so the stringer works extremely well for me. Bass kept down in cool lake water are very strong and healthy, so I doubt that any have suffered from post mortality. My lower depth limit is 40 feet, therefor fizzing is rarely needed, but I do needle bass that need it. I haven't brought a bass back to a marina to be officially weighed, other than occasional charity tournament, since 1994 and don't plan to unless it's a world record or 20+lbs.
Tournament anglers face transporting their bass in livewells and that is where Sure-Life products and a good knowledge of proper care is essential. The purpose of TBH C & R forum...to share good information regarding catch and release. Preventing the bass from rolling over in the first place is the key. If the basses swim bladder is over inflated, then fizzing may be a good choice, for tournament bass. Immediate release is a far better choice for recreational bass anglers, unless the bass have over inflated swim bladders and can't swim back down on their own.
Tom
 
#16 ·
Doing well. Talked to Tony last week. Seems to be ok. I agree with you with recreational angling that immediate release usually works. They go right back down, no big deal unless from the extreme depths. The torpedo sinker is a good option and has merit and is actually part of the study. Tournament fishing is what I speak of, especially when the above posts bash tournaments and didn't have the facts correctly noted as to what actually happened. The video on the website http://www.sure-life.com explains it in detail. We give out the free cd's that Lane and Tony had made for this very purpose. Educating the tournament public is what needs to happen, whether it is the local club or B.A.S.S. or FLW . Getting them to listen to logic and procedures PROVEN in the field is the hard part. Since I am part of B.A.S.S., and they don't want to seem to listen, is why we are doing it from the bottom up so to speak. Once we get the grass roots tournament folks to doing these procedures, then we can force the national issue. Then perhaps we can eliminate the fiasco's we have seen at Falcon, the Potomac and other places.
 
#17 ·
Good luck with your efforts. The club level weekend warrior far out number the professional bass fisherman and it's the club level and local weekend tournaments where bass are placed in livewells with little regard to being over stressed. Most bass anglers have the mistaken belief bass are tough fish, carp and catfish are tough and nearly indestructible. Bass are more durable than fine scaled game fish like trout, but they are still subject to being over stressed by handling, hot water and low DO levels. Anglers believe that bass can live out of water for several minutes without any harm and slime removal from being bounced on carpets has no affect. Why, because bass are tough, thats how B.A.S.S. has promoted the sport...rough and tumble.
Again, good luck with your education efforts.
Tom
PS; Lane is one of the good people in this sport and I hope she is doing OK. Thank you for the up date.
 
#18 ·
First of all here is a post from Bass resource with Lane telling everyone in public she didn't take the pics. here is the post

http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1209923914/0

second if tourtament fishing is decreasing bass population it should be regulated and controlled. Fishing is a great american pass time and as we all love to do it. So y risk losing it? For adds on ESPN or the pros big checks. I watch BAss but don't fish tourtament and if I did and seen a bunch of dead fish I would never go back. I want my grand children and children to enjoy fishing as well. My grandfather fished as well as my father and now me. So if we keep it up then it will come to no more bassin I personaly don't want that.
 
#19 ·
If you read it, she didn't take the pics posted on that site. I got the email with the pics SHE took, not what was posted on some other site. The inner circle gets those pics, not the public.
You are correct in that if things don't change, the future may be changed. Which is what we are doing from the grass roots level to force the issue and makes these people learn proper fish care.
 
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